Attorney general candidates Kris Kobach and Chris Mann went head to head again Tuesday night, jousting over how far each would go to defend state laws on the books.
Kobach, the Republican, questioned whether his Democratic opponent would defend laws on the books regulating abortion during a nearly hourlong debate broadcast on KTWU.
The former secretary of state said there wasn’t a statute he wouldn’t defend as the state’s top lawyer.
“No, I will not give you a list of laws that I won’t defend,” Kobach said to moderator Nick Haines when asked for list of laws he would object to litigating.
“I will defend every law on the books in Kansas whether I agree with it or not, and I will defend it vigorously,” he said. “That is what we must do in this area.”
Mann, a former police officer and prosecutor, agreed that it is the job of the state attorney general to defend state laws.
But he added there is a “threshold matter” at which point a decision is made about trying a case.
Citing an opinion authored by Republican Attorney General Derek Schmidt, Mann said a decision must be made about whether a law is constitutional before going to court.
“You must first make sure that law is constitutional,” Mann said.
“If it is found constitutional, then you shall defend that law,” he said. “That’s the key.”
Mann then criticized Kobach for his willingness to defend any law on the books.
“My opponent has said he will blindly defend any law that our Legislature passes. That is simply not how this job works,” he said. “That’s a political ideology.”
Kobach countered, saying Mann’s approach would undermine the state’s representative form of government.
“The people have passed those laws,” Kobach said. “You don’t give the attorney general a veto and he’ll decide which laws he’s going to defend.”
Kobach said it would be an invitation to the American Civil Liberties Union to challenge state laws that Mann could decide not defend because he agrees with the lawsuit.
“That is not what the attorney general’s office is empowered to do,” he said.
“That changes the attorney general’s office to a king who can unilaterally erase the laws.”
Mann argued Kobach wants to play politics with the attorney general’s office, noting that there are some existing laws he will work against.
Mann once again pointed to the Kobach’s comments about packing the courts with justices who would reverse a Supreme Court ruling that found there’s a state constitutional right to an abortion. The voters just rejected a constitutional amendment reversing the decision.
“You asked about attacking laws,” Mann said.
“My opponent has said…that he will slowly and quietly work to change the laws of how judges are selected so he can pack the court with ultra-conservative justices that will overrule the will of the people,” Mann said.
“That’s what he said, and we can bet that he’ll try to do that.”
While Mann said he would defend laws passed by the Legislature, he again relied on the attorney general’s opinion.
“Unless my opponent thinks Derek Schmidt doesn’t know what he’s talking about, he has said there has to be a threshold issue of making sure that law is constitutional before the attorney general shall defend it,” Mann said.
Mann wasn’t without sharp rebukes of the former secretary of state, noting Kobach had four guns stolen that he didn’t keep secured in his truck as well as his role at the embattled We Build the Wall, a nonprofit accused of money laundering and fraud.
“When I moved to the state prosecuting white-collar criminals…in dozens of courtrooms, I held the hands of victims who lost their life savings to scam artists and then prosecuted those scam artists for crimes like fraud and money laundering,” Mann said.
“Kris Kobach? He served as lead attorney and board member for an organization indicted for those very same crimes.
“While I protected Kansans from fraud, he led an organization that was committing it.”
At one point, the debate turned to whether Kobach and Mann support the lawsuit Schmidt joined with five other states, challenging President Joe Biden’s plans to erase student loan debt for millions of Americans.
The lawsuit argued that the administration lacks legal authority to make unilateral decisions to forgive debt without congressional authorization.
A federal judge has already ruled that Kansas and five other states had failed to demonstrate standing in the case.
A day later, a federal appeals court stopped implementation of the program while an appeal of the case was considered.
“This is a cut and dried issue,” Kobach said of the student-loan lawsuit.
“It is unconstitutional for the U.S. president by executive decree to spend $500 billion – that’s half a trillion dollars – forgiving student loans,” Kobach said.
The constitution, he said, says only the Congress has the power to spend money.
“The attorney general has the authority and the obligation to defend our constitution,” Kobach said.
Mann didn’t directly address the question of the student loan lawsuit, but suggested that the state’s top lawyer needs to be focused on Kansas issues.
“We need to look at whether it’s going to help the people of Kansas or it’s going to hurt the people of Kansas,” Mann said of joining in federal lawsuits.
“We have important work to do right here in Kansas,” Mann said.
“I will be focused on helping the people of Kansas with everyday issues, whether that’s consumer fraud, Medicaid fraud and abuse, making sure I’m working community by community to drive down violent crime.
“My opponent has said he’ll wake up every morning and for breakfast find a new way to sue the federal government.
“That’s simply a waste of our resources when we need to be focusing on important issues right here in Kansas.”
Each candidate was asked whether they would support a ban on assault weapons and red-flag laws that permits police to petition a court to order the temporary removal of firearms from a person who they believe may present a danger to others or themselves.
Mann said he supported the idea that violent offenders should not have access to guns and said more needs to be done to foster gun safety.
“We need to find ways to improve gun safety, which will keep handguns out of the hands of violent criminals.”
Mann pointed out that in 2020, Kobach – then a candidate for U.S. Senate – reported that he had four guns stolen from his pickup truck that was parked at a Wichita hotel.
“My opponent could use some of those (gun-safety) courses himself,” Mann said.
“He left guns unsecured, in his car, in Wichita,” he said. “They were stolen and could be in the hands of violent criminals right now.”
Kobach said red-flag laws violate constitutional rights to due process and to keep and bear arms.
“I believe Americans have the right to protect themselves in the home and to protect themselves when walking across that dark parking lot at night,” he said.
